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Sticky topic: Papa Johns going Tip Credit (Split Pay) and the 20% Rule |
gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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6/28/08 7:10:23 PM
 
I'm sorry for the rehash of already discussed material, but I expect a lot of PJ's drivers will be coming here soon. I want them to have easy to find and CORRECT information...
LoneStar writes:
| << Run 4 the money writes:
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For every munite spent on the road, which is a lot of them, employers can legally claim the "tip credit". >> |
Just because they recorded it that way and paid you that way doesn‘t make it legal.
Operating a vehicle is not serving a customer. Only the act of serving earns you tips.
...
Regardless of how people crooked you in the past or what they used to justify it, it doesn‘t pass a DOL investigation.
Never has. Never will. >> |
LoneStar writes here:
| << I've been in this job over 20 years on and off. Drivers have never, EVER been paid server's pay. It isn't a server's job.
What we are doing is operating a motor vehicle. It is the serving that is incidental to the job, not the other way around.
DUAL JOBS: Driving and handing over the food. We spend more than 20% of each and every hour doing things other than handing over the food, therefore MUST be paid the minimum wage.
GET IT RIGHT GENIUSES!!!
I've seen the US DOL rule on this 4 times in 20 years. They ALWAYS determine that drivers get the full wage in every instance I've ever seen.
This is precisely why for DECADES the largest pizza companies in the world pay FULL MIN WAGE plus mileage, plus tips.
STOP REPEATING THE FRANCHISE LIE!!!
>> |
Can you educate us all some more LoneStar? Can you give us some more info on the successful challenges to this?
How is Channellos able to get around this law for years or decades?
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Murder victim's head cooked in Italian pizza oven
<< last modified on 1/29/10 7:29:38 PM >>
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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6/28/08 7:27:52 PM
This poster IS required in ALL stores:
NOTICE THE PHONE NUMBER PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED AT THE BOTTOM!
Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) Minimum Wage Poster
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/posters/pdf/mi nwage.pdf
| << Every employer of employees subject to the Fair Labor Standards Act‘s minimum wage provisions must post, and keep posted, a notice explaining the Act in a conspicuous place in all of their establishments so as to permit employees to readily read it. The content of the notice is prescribed by the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor. An approved copy of the minimum wage poster is made available for informational purposes or for employers to use as posters. >> |
This is from the poster also:
| << TIP CREDIT Employers of “tipped employees” must pay a cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit against their minimum wage obligation. If an employee‘s tips combined with the employer‘s cash wage of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Certain other conditions must also be met. >> |
These are the OTHER CONDITIONS:
| << http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pd f
Dual Jobs: When an employee is employed concurrently in both a tipped and a non-tipped occupation, the tip credit is available only for the hours spent in the tipped occupation. The Act permits an employer to take the tip credit for time spent in duties related to the tipped occupation, even though such duties are not by themselves directed toward producing tips, provided such duties are incidental to the regular duties and are generally assigned to such occupations. Where tipped employees are routinely assigned to maintenance, or where tipped employees spend a substantial amount of time (in excess of 20 percent) performing general preparation work or maintenance, no tip credit may be taken for the time spent in such duties. >> |
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Murder victim's head cooked in Italian pizza oven
<< last modified on 7/14/08 4:44:52 AM >>
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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6/28/08 7:33:10 PM
LoneStar writes here:
| << Run 4 the money writes:
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Okay LS, I‘m stupid. So school me. Where is it law that the "tip credit" does not aply to drivers? >> |
You posted it yourself on page 1 in this thread. Short-term memory loss or lack of comprehension and knowledge of the business?
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs15.pd f
| << Dual Jobs: When an employee is employed concurrently in both a tipped and a non-tipped occupation, the tip credit is available only for the hours spent in the tipped occupation. The Act permits an employer to take the tip credit for time spent in duties related to the tipped occupation, even though such duties are not by themselves directed toward producing tips, provided such duties are incidental to the regular duties and are generally assigned to such occupations. Where tipped employees are routinely assigned to maintenance, or where tipped employees spend a substantial amount of time (in excess of 20 percent) performing general preparation work or maintenance, no tip credit may be taken for the time spent in such duties. >> |
If an employee spends more than 20% of their time doing anything other than SERVING CUSTOMERS...(such as, but not limited to: answering phones, cooking, cutting pizzas, folding boxes, operating a motor vehicle, standing against the wall with their thumb up their ass), for more than 20 percent, which is also calculated as 12 minutes, out of any given hour, they must be paid minimum wage for that hour.
Which for a delivery driver, who spends an average of one minute serving a customer and receiving tips, means they are subject to the tip-tax credit provision exactly ZERO hours out of any given hour, on any given day, in any given week, of any given month, of any given year, since Dominick opened the world‘s first pizza delivery joint back before you or I were an itch in our daddy‘s respective pants.
And that is why this is a scam, invented only recently in the history of this business, to keep profits high in the industry instead of controlling costs and running respectable, efficient business operations. >> |
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Murder victim's head cooked in Italian pizza oven
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LoneStar
Delivery Jedi
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 13,107
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6/28/08 7:41:07 PM
gregster writes:
| << I‘m sorry for the rehash of already discussed material, but I expect a lot of PJ‘s drivers will be coming here soon. I want them to have easy to find and CORRECT information... >> |
If you ask, perhaps boma will make it sticky.
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http://www.incorrigible4life.blogspot.com
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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Glenntop
Apprentice Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
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6/28/08 10:24:12 PM
gregster writes:
| <<
These are the OTHER CONDITIONS:
| << http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs15.pd f
Dual Jobs: When an employee is employed concurrently in both a tipped and a non-tipped occupation, the tip credit is available only for the hours spent in the tipped occupation. The Act permits an employer to take the tip credit for time spent in duties related to the tipped occupation, even though such duties are not by themselves directed toward producing tips, provided such duties are incidental to the regular duties and are generally assigned to such occupations. Where tipped employees are routinely assigned to maintenance, or where tipped employees spend a substantial amount of time (in excess of 20 percent) performing general preparation work or maintenance, no tip credit may be taken for the time spent in such duties. >> |
>> |
What about the part you didn't bold that says "The Act permits an employer to take the tip credit for time spent in duties related to the tipped occupation, even though such duties are not by themselves directed toward producing tips, provided such duties are incidental to the regular duties and are generally assigned to such occupations.
Don't quote law and bold the part that says something in your favor, and try to ignore the parts you don't like. Even if you assume the driving part of the job has nothing to do with tips (which I would find pretty hard to argue - if you told a customer "Hey, that thing you ordered for delivery, come to the store to get it, oh and I expect you to tip me the same for giving your order in exchange for payment as you would if I came to your house and did it." The driving is directly related to why delivery drivers are tipped by customers.) you are still left with the law stating it's ok if that duty is generally assigned to the occupation. It's hard to argue that delivery drivers don't have driving generally assigned as part of the job.
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Soldier
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9546
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6/28/08 11:11:41 PM
You can't justify sub-min wage.
If you're willing (forced by law or not) to pay insider staff the minimum wage or more, you should equally be willing to pay all employees for those same duties performed by drivers. To not keep the pay equal for equal duties performed is discrimination.
If you want equal work out of an employee, you better damn well have equal pay. Otherwise, since many of us spend more than 20% of our time inside a store performing insider duties that's paid at a higher rate to insiders but not drivers, atleast Federal Law will back us in a minimum wage complaint if the employer is paying submin wage below the federal limit.
Argue all you want, I want atleast minimum wage for the time that I spend doing insider chores that are paid at a higher rate to insiders. I'm sick of being told that because I make tips, it's "fair" to work me inside for less than the insiders. Not only that, but disinclude insiders altogether because of the pay differential and work drivers even HARDER for that lesser pay! Triple whammy against the driver right there.
1. Having to do insider chores.
2. Having to do insider chores for less than insiders make.
3. Having to do insider chores for less than insiders make with less insiders because now "insider chores" is magically part of a driving job so they save on labor by not having any insiders and working drivers for half an insider wage.
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Never forget...
<< last modified on 6/28/08 11:15:03 PM >>
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Glenntop
Apprentice Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
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6/28/08 11:43:31 PM
Soldier writes:
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Argue all you want, I want atleast minimum wage for the time that I spend doing insider chores that are paid at a higher rate to insiders. I‘m sick of being told that because I make tips, it‘s "fair" to work me inside for less than the insiders. >> |
No argument over insider duties since there are insiders specifically hired to do those tasks in most places. That should be at least minimum wage or whatever insiders are currently paid. It's the driving part that seems pretty directly related to tips AND a generally assigned task for the tipped profession only.
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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Soldier
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9546
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6/29/08 12:42:07 AM
lol where were you last night at approximately 0Dark30 greggy?
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Never forget...
<< last modified on 6/29/08 12:42:25 AM >>
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Evil Scotty
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5880
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6/29/08 1:22:06 AM
gregster writes:
| << These signs showed up all over town last night. They all seem to be just outside a Papa John‘s for some reason...
>> |
Gregster, what is the area code????
EDIT: Nevermind I found it. It is 757 - and now that I think about it; How close was this store to the one where Robert E. Kiesewetter lost his life?
--
Impeach Obama
"Pay Attention." ~ wander
<< last modified on 6/29/08 1:31:40 AM >>
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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6/29/08 1:31:40 AM
757-332-4676
Hampton Roads AUPDD writes:
| << My name is Steven Savage.
I am the Regional Director for the AUPDD in the Hampton Roads area of Virgina. Which is a fancy title for the local union organizer. Which is about as glamorous as union organizing gets.
I am the driver who attempted to organize my Corporate Domino’s Pizza store in Chesapeake, VA. Which failed in a 5 to 6 vote.
http://www.tipthepizzaguy.com/discussion/thread.php?n um=8526&ip=3
Though it was a promising and somewhat disappointing experience, the event has convinced me that a organized labor movement in our industry is needed now more than ever. So, I am determined to help guide the formation of a local chapter of the AUPDD in the Hampton Roads area.
*UPDATE*
CALL FOR MEETING LOCATION AND TIMES
I will be also visiting local stores most evenings and I will be happy to speak with any drivers that are on his/her break or before/after their shift.
I can also be contacted
via phone at
757-332-4676
or
email at
stevensavage_2000@yahoo.com.
I will be happy to respond to anyone on TTPG, in regards to my experiences organizing my store, or about organizing efforts in Hampton Roads. >> |
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Murder victim's head cooked in Italian pizza oven
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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gregster
Delivery Tycoon
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 8054
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6/29/08 1:41:23 AM
Soldier writes:
| << lol where were you last night at approximately 0Dark30 greggy? >> |
I can't take credit for someone else’s hard work. But I can make sure everyone knows about it.
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Murder victim's head cooked in Italian pizza oven
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